There's just an update going on. Zooomr moved to Japan (physically) and all the hardware has to be reinstalled (and such stuff).

And yes. There's hope.

http://trac.zooomr.com/trac/wiki/Zooomr2008Release

Yep, most of my photos are missing as well. I hope this is just a temporary glitch :/

Hi friends -- this is only temporary; you can jump on Zipline for a live discussion on it. These photos will be back online within the month.

Sorry for any inconveniences.

kristopher

Zipline Link: http://www.zooomr.com/zipline/killercup/statuses/bcd2cf784b/

Within the month? What? Are you kidding us?!
Seriously, each update or Zooomr is more painful than the previous one. You're a cool and talented guy, Kris, but get real.

You get real, and get the facts.

This problem sucks, I admit, and I agree. The unavailable photos were turned on their head, from the most recent, to a chunk of old photos.

Yes, this is devastating for new users in the last 5 months.

Here's the deal, and I hope everyone understands this.

For this last migration, Kris purchased many many hard drives, and (remotely, of course) copied off what he thought was all of the data that wasn't sent over the network from Japan to the US. Thomas (Hawk) and a few others put the drives in, waited for the copy to complete, took the drives out, shipped them to Kris in Japan.

Kris then offloaded all of this copied data, and before that finished, HAD TO (contractual obligation) shut down all his servers, that he owns, in the Zoho Datacenter in the US.

So, it's unfortunately not as simple as just starting up the network copy again, because the servers are unreachable. Also, having said that, they can't just buy more drives and ship them again, because the servers have no power.

The reason why getting this bunch of images will take sufficiently longer to arrive is because Thomas Hawk and the US Zooomr assistants must now package and physically ship all remaining servers and associated hardware (NAS storage, SAN storage, or what have you) to Japan for installation. Shipping a few hundreds of pounds (perhaps even Thousands) is infinitely harder and more expensive to do, not to mention slower.

So, Kris made a big big boo boo in missing these files. But it happened, and I'm sure he sorely regrets it. But he's now in the situation that this will take time, and you will have to deal with it however possible.

One final note is that I AM ONLY A ZOOOMR USER, AND I HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH ZOOOMR. MY FACTS MAY BE INCORRECT UNLESS VERIFIED BY KRIS OR ANY OTHER ZOOOMR EMPLOYEE.
However, I feel fairly confident in my information, which I have read in NUMEROUS zips, groups posts, and so forth. (And no, I don't really talk to Kristopher directly.)

Given that it is currently 3:15AM in Japan, and Kristopher is probably sleeping, I hope this will suffice you folks actively steaming for information on why this happened.

Is there any way the photos could be sent to Japan electronically? I know we are talking about huge amounts of data, but with a fast pipe it seems like it would quicker (and cheaper) than shipping thousands of pounds of machines.

Just wondering.

This is not a simple boo boo. This is a major failure on the Zooomr team to anticipate and plan and check that their move was going to work.

I've been an active member of the site, uploading my photos and participating in the message boards, posting and voting to you vs. the best, and starting the photo assignment group, but this is ridiculous.

If they have the server to ship to Japan, then they have the servers to power them up and transfer the data off them.

Fundamentally, Zooomr is a business (in the business of providing a place for a community to exist) and this is not the kind of boo boo that a successful company can be expected to make. It just seems like another sign of fundamental problems with responsible company leadership.

I was very excited to join Zooomr, be active, participate, and grow as a photographer, but things haven't gotten better yet. I've kept my mouth shut, because it seems that complaining gets you sent to the Exodus/Raul camp of "Zooomr Haters" and that isn't what I am. I am just feeling very disappointed.

@VxJasonxV
I haven't been part of Zooomer that long, I've rarely seen Kris update Members as to what had been going on previously, the only real updates as of lately have been of the move to Japan and limited functions because of that move. What I have seen constantly are excuses, excuses excuses excuses on everything from coming minor to major updates, fixes and now the move. :P

WTF.

yeah, everybody is right. this isn't a minor detail that slipped through the cracks. this appears to be a pretty-major-freaking-blunder. that said, there may in fact be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

regardless, you need to calm down. if this setback is going to break you, then your priorities are all suck-ass. are you really so vain that you can't tolerate not having some of your photos viewed for a couple weeks. i mean, really, is this such a huge inconvenience that you're ready to show up with pitchforks and torches asking for the head of Kris?

virtually every function of Zooomr is up and running. zipline is working. the groups are open. your host page is working. only some of your photos are missing. and we have no reason to believe that they won't be back in a couple weeks. in the meantime, you're free to continue to take and upload to your hearts content.

most of us aren't paying customers. it's really only pro-users that have a right to bitch. but even then, i think it's a little unreasonable.

just relax. this isn't life and death. this is supposed to be fun.

As a new member, after a long wait today i got all my pictures back only to find that others members pics are now unavailable and could be that way for up to a month. So i am affraid and sorry that i will be taking my pics and my money elsewhere :(

@Duck Brown: Read my post. The servers are off and more than likely WILL NOT be turned back in on America.

---

@cmoews: I said it was a "big big boo boo". Please don't change my words. The only place I said "simple" was in the sentence:

So, it's unfortunately not as simple as just starting up the network copy again, [...]

Other than that, I do not disagree. They made a big mistake, and it sucks. I agree wholeheartedly.

If they have the server to ship to Japan, then they have the servers to power them up and transfer the data off them.

Zoho will NOT likely let them back on the network. The contract is expired, the servers are off. Like I said, the only "simple" here is saying that it is not. Transferring data at this point has probably only one medium. Physical shipments.

---

@artfuldodga: I don't know if you have, but I have kris set as a friend, and I follow his Zips. There's a reason I posted my initial post, as it was an attempt to pool everything that's happened thus far, and try to inform others as best as possible while Kris is 'indisposed' (sleeping).
Excuses exist, because problems happen. I'd like to think that all of the excuses thus far are valid ones. Very crappy ones (in terms of why the excuse exists in the first place), but very valid ones.
But that's only my two cents, take it or leave it.

---

@metrognome: A photo sharing site with no photos. You're not mad?
(Just playing Devil's Advocate. I got off lucky because I uploaded very few photos in the timeframe that is inaccessible. It's detrimental to people who are actual photographers and WAY more active than I.)

[edit]
Yes "with no photos" was an over-exaggeration, but it's a valid point. A photo sharing site missing a massive chunk of photos would steam people, I wholeheartedly understand why people are mad. I really do.

---

@PixelChez: I'm sorry that you seem to think that this undertaking will be the norm, and that you have to send your business elsewhere.
Regardless, you will be missed.

Hey Everyone,

Last night (1/31/08) Jeremy, Jay (Zoho), and myself pulled the plug on Zooomr's US servers and removed the equipment from the building. There is lots of equipment and it's all VERY heavy. We are in the process of packing it up and shipping it to Japan.

It's unfortunate that not all the photos were copied, but Zooomr was required to have everything removed from the US data center by the end of the month so this all came down to wire getting this done.

Your photos are safely stored on the drive arrays but the only way to get them back up on Zooomr is by getting the equipment back to Japan. This will happen as quickly as possible but may take a little longer than expected because of it's weight and bulk. It's not something that we can send overnight by FedEx or DHL.

Check out the pictures of the drive array here:
http://www.zooomr.com/photos/fogview/4199919/?82735#comment82735

We will keep everyone updated on this.

-Tom

Congratulations, Tom. I'm glad to see that you're able to be an active part in Zooomr, in any form, and I'm happy to have first hand info of where exactly things are.

One thing I am curious about... where did the servers go? TH's garage/basement or similar?

VxJasonxV, the boxes are split between Jeremy and myself because there was too much for either of our vehicles. I'll post more pictures later.

@metrognome: Well said! This is supposed to be fun!
This is a web site, people. It's a place to share photos with other people who enjoy photography. Without this move to Japan, there is no telling what would have happened to Zooomr. As it is, zipline has been up, there are still a LOT of photos to look at, and there is a plan in progress to restore all the data.
Is it disappointing that there have been glitches? Yes it is. But it is not the end of the world.
Remember that Zooomr is a very small team of people. This is not a site with massive amounts of money and resources behind it. A datacenter move is a huge undertaking. Considering the limited resources and time constraints on this project, I think it has gone rather well. Could have been better, yes, but could have been a whole lot worse.

but could have been a whole lot worse.

Like, for instance... Zooomr not having the funding for occupying a datacenter, and Zoho kicking them out.
Then Zooomr wouldn't exist at all.

Thankfully, that hasn't happened yet. Due in large thanks to our new Japanese buddies.

@VxJasonxV I Wasn't quoting you, I was saying this this is not a boo boo, this is a serious oversight and requires more than a "by the end of the month" reply from Zooomr management.

If they have the servers, why can't they turn them on and extract what is missing. ZoHo may not provide them bandwidth but certainly there are other options that can be done rather than packing up and shipping the entire servers (understanding that the servers are going to go there, it still seems like something could be done to expedite the data transfer).

I am still hopeful for Zooomr. I think Kris has done some very cool things here, he's integrated some of the best ideas from the whole web2.0 arena into a great combination of community, communications and art. But there is a point at which the "give him a break, he's only one guy, just wait and support the community" rhetoric just falls flat.

well i certainly know that every1 involved with this move learned a lot! What that may be i have not asked, maybe i should?

hopefully -forsight: how can we back this stuff up so we don't have to move it again?

How to properly inform people in advance-i came on with out knowing mark 4 was under way, and expecting to upload more that day!

Logistics- how to move all that stuff!

and Peoples expectations! You no longer have the option of thinking small time! If you use the "few man team" as a reason for a foul up people will "brain" you for it!

A team with less than 10 person, no official fiancial sponsor, what do you expect?

If you are one of them who gotten the Free PRO status, you should shut up.

They should not of done everything last minute, you anticipate whats going to happen with your site in advance, you let your users know months in advance, you go over what problems could arise and you think about how your users will react. Which makes the chances of really bad things such as this happening slim to none or at the very least just take a few days to fix any problem.

Imagine if before flickr was bought up, they had as many setbacks as Zooomr has had, any chance they would be on top? no, and right now does Zooomr have a chance of being on top? Probably not now and its not the any of the users fault so don't tell users to shut up, they are here using Zooomr after all.

"Kristopher wrote Posted on Feb. 1, 2008
Hi friends -- this is only temporary; you can jump on Zipline for a live discussion on it. These photos will be back online within the month.

Sorry for any inconveniences.

kristopher"

When a mistake this big and lets face it, stupid happens, I can't even imagine a site thats just trying to 'make it' make such a statment to its users, fearing that their users might just pack their bags and leave.

I think one of the major problems from the get go even until now is that Kris and other founders treated/treat? Zooomr as just their playtoy without regard for the majority of its userbase. Why create a public site like this thats said to be for 'Everyone' if its not treated like a site that could be large scale, this is just my opinion. :P

I'm not a user who got their Pro Status for Free, I got it because I paid for it... Zooomr looked cool on the outside, then I got in, saw a few flaws, updated were promised which also looked good and I wanted to offer some support and even still these promises are yet to be delivered and right now? Big no giant WTF over here on my end here people. :P

I think you guys should think about handing out rebates if things aren't improved soon, and by soon I mean within the month, after all you've had a few years already.

*shrugs

So as a Pro user who paid for it then I must imply from your statement that I have the right to complain, and the right to expect more than non-paying users?

My pictures are now available. So things ARE happening. Probably wouldn't take a whole month, and kris wanted to cover himself. Rather than having to put everything off day after day and week after week, I think he's giving himself plenty of time to get things sorted and maybe surprise us by meeting the deadline.

Lets not get our knickers in a twist and hold on. Afterall... he's doing this for us!

This is not the end of the world, people. I've seen far worse fubars. Seeing a row of "photo not available" isn't fun for me, but it's a temporary problem. It's not like your pictures are lost; you still have them on your hard drives, and they're on the drives pulled from the data center. Zooomr's probably the best photosharing site out there, and I'm willing to put up with a minor inconvenience in order to make it better.

(I am not a Zooomr employee, nor do I play one on TV.)

If they have the servers, why can't they turn them on and extract what is missing.

Because, as stated above, they're sitting split between two different people.

Not to even begin to mention that;
(1) Home connections typically have crap for upstream.
(2) There is undoubtedly at least tens of gigs still to be transfered. Something tells me possibly even hundreds, but I think I'm wrong. Though of course I don't know.
(3) If the only cables they have are those... I don't remember what the term is. If the only power cables they had were the inversed plug ones, the ones that are full faced and don't plug into normal outlets.
Yes, Tom/Jeremy could buy normal plugs... that's on them.
(4) Tom and or Jeremy may not have physical space to plug them in and connect them up. Not to even mention the knowledge to configure them to connect to anything. This might also require exposing sensitive data (root passwords...).
(5) Not to even mention the total required sockets in the first place. I don't know what U's the Zooomr servers are, but if they're more than 1, the chances are good that they will have multiple power supplies.
(6) Servers are LOUD.
(7) If there are any external devices (like a SAN or NAS), that only adds to the configuration time.

ZoHo may not provide them bandwidth but certainly there are other options that can be done rather than packing up and shipping the entire servers (understanding that the servers are going to go there, it still seems like something could be done to expedite the data transfer).

Yes. This is true. Tom/Jeremy could eject all the disks possible and send those first. That is indeed a possibility, I would think.

@Zhu; Free Pro users probably make up a very small percentage of all *active* Pro users.
Please also don't be so flagrantly insulting. (Something that I'm attempting to keep in check for myself personally...)

@artfuldodga:

I think you guys should think about handing out rebates if things aren't improved soon, and by soon I mean within the month, after all you've had a few years already

I'd pass on the $0.75 compensation for the downtime if it means things go on as scheduled.
If you had photos lost during the current missing August - December period, you might be able to get $1.15 back!

I'll pass, but that's just me.

Inexcusable!! This it the third time there have been major blunders out of three system upgrades in a row. Each one seems to be worse than the last. You would think they (Kris and whoever is working for/with him) would have learned from the Mk3 upgrade where the site was down for a week!! As far as I'm concerned this is a stark example of horribly poor planning, inexperienced management and even worse execution. If Zooomr ever expects to become a serious competitor to Flickr, (or just stay in business), they need to grow up and up and get some qualified business and technical management. People who have significant experience running and managing a real IT organization and serious data center.

I too have been biting my tongue for the past week while finding the site inaccessible on quite a few occasions and my photos intermittently AWAL. After reading this thread and finding out what has actually transpired, I felt I had to vent. Ive been a user and supporter of Zooomr for over a year now . But after the Mk3 fiasco and promises from Kris and Tom that it would not happen again, and now this incredible blunder, I'm finding it very hard to continue to support Zooomr.

... Seeing a row of "photo not available" isn't fun for me, but it's a temporary problem. ...

I think some people are upset because they use Zooomr to host photos for their blogs and websites. Now that all these photos are MIA, people have to host them somewhere else and update their pages, or have their pages look like crap for the next month.

When you consider that some people make some decent money from their blogs it is a more serious issue than "not fun for me".

And no, I am not one of the people that make decent money from my blogs, but they do look like crap right now. I also got free Pro For Life, but paid the money anyway. Does that qualify me to have an opinion?

For a clear example of some frustration, check out Thomas Hawks Pownce Profile.
http://pownce.com/thomashawk

Besides the fact that he's using Flickr, go a page or two back on his profile, and there you have it.
Real fun stuff. :P

My .2 cents:

I've been an active zooomr member since 2006. I got a free Pro account, for which I am thankful.

I use zooomr to host pictures on my blog and more recently a photoblog on my photography website. I don't use zooomr for my galleries, just my blogs.

However, it makes it really hard for me to maintain a professional website/blog that is missing it's photos.

I really like zooomr so I'm probably not going to switch to another provider, but the last two upgrades haven't gone well and when my pictures don't show up on my blog, it is a serious issue for me and I of course have to look out my own self interest first.

Since I haven't paid money for the use of Zooomr, I don't feel that I really am entitled to complain too much. However, if I did pay for a pro account, I would expect a refund (at least a partial refund) and a sincere apology asking me to remain a customer.

On a slightly seperate note, Where is Thomas Hawk for all this? Is he still with zooomr? I would expect that during a clusterf*ck like this, that the CEO would stand up and take the bullets and let the techs work it out...

Also, as cool as zipline is, it really isn't a good way to communicate with everyone... a regular email, or perhaps even a blog post would be helpful. zooomr has a blog? yeah, but it's pretty dry as of late...

ok, so that's my opinion on things. I really look forward to the future of zooomr, but I can't say for sure I will continue to rely on them for my photo hosting.

For a clear example of some frustration, check out Thomas Hawks Pownce Profile.
http://pownce.com/thomashawk

Besides the fact that he's using Flickr, go a page or two back on his profile, and there you have it.
Real fun stuff. :P

Whats wrong with doing that when uploading is disallowed during this period of the upgrading? lol...

In addition to everything I uploaded from 29 Sept 2007 on, my photos from July 2006 are also AWOL. Is this related? From the explanations given, it shouldn't be... (my avatar was amongst those 2006 photos)

I'm in the same situation as Duck Brown; I'm a Pro for Life, and I've additionally given money too.

The latest mis-steps have been annoying, sure, but this current situation is nothing compared to the Mark III days. Uploads have been restored, zipline and groups are working, and other than four months of pictures being offline temporarily, things are working.

Zooomr may be glitchy, and grows in starts and fits, but it's still a fun place to be. I'm very positive on the future of Zooomr, and am wise enough to be patient. It's a very exciting time indeed, and even if F'er is "working", I still don't enjoy that place. It just doesn't feel right. Zooomr does.

I'm staying.

"Thomas H. replied 18 hours ago
Hey James, started publishing to Flickr again about a month ago."
http://www.pownce.com/thomashawk/notes/1276597/

@zhu - I have nothing against flickr, it just seems strange to me that Thomas would be using it again for a month or longer while their own service deserves their full attention.

@mark - My Avatar seems to be working but the picture itself is gone, so I don't know where its loading it from, somewhere in the dark abyss that is Zooomr, no idea. :P

Hey guys (and gals),

I know everyone is upset about their missing pictures but this is not the end of the world. I have hope that once the drives are shipped to Japan and the missing photos uploaded on to the new servers, Zooomr will be better than ever.

Zooomr's transition to Japan has been a painful one and hopefully there has been lessons learned from it. Kris says that the Mark IV release has bug fixes and new features that everyone has been waiting for. I think we should wait just a little longer for our photos to be restored and the Mark IV launch.

I think Kris has done a great job keeping everyone informed at the Knowledge Center site. http://trac.zooomr.com/trac/wiki/Zooomr2008Release

On a positive note, Zooomr is now up and running on its new servers and we can start uploading new pictures for others to see. (I like to look at my picture gallery as "half full" and not "half empty".)

As a disclaimer I'm not an employee of Zooomr, just a user of Zooomr like everyone else. I also paid for my Zooomr Pro account.

-Tom

Wow, wouldn't it be a great idea to restrict access to groups to paying members only? That way only the really pious, devout and observant followers of the high church of Zooomr would be permitted to have an opinion, not any longer being molested by any heresy and perversion. Wouldn't that be great?

The zealous religiosity up to fanatic levels of certain members of this site's community is only disgusting and abominable. Has anybody any doubt that this relocation was amateurish bullshit?

I think that nothing is every perfect, and we're just the opposite side of this occasion.

Detractors are making a volcano out of a molehill in negativity.
And we're making a mountain out of a molehill in support of Zooomr.

To each their own, but I don't think I'm going anywhere. My 'straw that broke the camel's back' hasn't hit yet.
Actually, that's a lie. It did last year, I went to Flickr, liked what I saw, got bored, came back to Zooomr.

Now, I'm sticking with Zooomr because I'm waiting to see it improve.
And I certainly hope it'll be here sooner than later.

This is a website, offering a service, doing so for free is part of the business model, you know a website, once again basically defunct, NOT A SECT!

This is a website, offering a service, doing so for free is part of the business model, you know a website, once again basically defunct, NOT A SECT!

It's not a sect?! Does that mean I have to take back the robes? What about the secret chants and handshakes?

In other news, I still support Zooomr. I kind of think of the whole thing as an adventure... you have to admit, you never know what's going to happen next. ;)

Really, this place has a great community, awesome photos, and features you can't find elsewhere. That's why I'm here, and why I'll stay here.

Really, this place has a great community, awesome photos, and features you can't find elsewhere. That's why I'm here, and why I'll stay here.

Yup, especially when you're faultily logged in into somebody else's account to have unlimited access to photos of nekkid body parts, n'est-ce pas? That's what makes this place great, sure!

And yup again, I like the features as well ...

Zooomr was just providing an anatomy lesson. I told you, Zooomr has features you can't find elsewhere. :)

Well to be fair it still says Zooomr beta at the top, though I doubt the term beta covers forgetting to copy several months of user data. :P

If this were the first time Zooomr had a serious issue, it would be easier to overlook it. But it is far from it. Maybe some of you are too new to remember when Zooomr was down for a month less than a year ago?

I still like Zooomr, and hope to stay here. Like others have said, the community is made up of great photographers who are also great people. They are the only reason I am still here.

I hope Kris gets everything running smoothly and this will all become (another) bad memory. I'm looking forward to promise land of Mark IV.

I'm being cautiously optimistic about Mk4. We were burned badly by the Mk3 upgrade which promised tons of new features. What we got was a few buggy new features and a significant number of broken or missing features. (Geo coding has has never worked as well as it used to in Mk3. What happened to track backs? I really liked that feature. There are too many more to list here.) Kris is again promising bug fixes and new features. Lets all hope that he has learned not to promise more than he can deliver, and that he and his team have done adequate testing of the new code. I do not wish to be an alpha tester again...

Down for a month? You're not talking about the Mark III upgrade, are you?

Chuckle ... any true believer is bound to be or to become an inquisitor sooner or later ...

Holy shit!!!

Autorequiem!

To whom it may concern ...

http://www.mikelrouse.com/Page3g.html

(press play)

Note, I don't want everything, everything bottled, everything now and everything, blithering! I'm happy with basic functionality. As long as it is not basically defunct.

God it?

Or should I possibly say Gawt it?

Great music. THX :)

Great music. THX :)

Check out his discography, you can listen to almost half of his songs over there.

Courtesy of Kyle Gann ...

http://www.live365.com/stations/kylegann
http://www.kylegann.com/

If you like it, check out this marvellous St. Barbara fellow ...

http://www.live365.com/stations/iridianradio
http://www.iridianradio.com/

...

Ja gut, hätte ich jetzt auch auf Deutsch sagen können, hätten dann aber einige weinger verstanden.

Hör grad die "Cameraworld", der Titel war halt passend. :)

Hör grad die "Cameraworld", der Titel war halt passend. :)

Nicht mein Favorit ;-) ...

Check out http://www.mikelrouse.com/Page3x.html

third song, clicking forward (New York 2000), Brazilian lyrics, love it, you need to know Brazilians to get it ...

High five!!! lol, rotfl, quite telling ...

... not telling anymore, chuckle ...

Oh Gawt